Otázka tvrdosti a měkkosti v Taiji

kung-fu, wu-šu, tchaj-ťi, JKD...

Moderátor: pm

Otázka tvrdosti a měkkosti v Taiji

Příspěvekod Yvan » ned 21. srp, 2005 22:12

S taiji je všeobecně spojována zejména měkkost. Ale jak to je v taiji s tvrdostí?
Tato otázka možná vyvstane, pokud nás zajímají také bojové aspekty taiji.
K poněkud hlubšímu zamyšlení o ní mě přiměla diskuse kolem kapitoly “The Question of Hard and Soft” (dále QHS) z knihy “The T’AI CHI BOXING Chronicle” od Kuo Lien-Ying.

Jako první mě napadlo hledat odpověď na tuto otázku přímo v textu QHS. Problémem ale bylo, že ve vlastním textu QHS je tvrdost, tvrdý (hard) opakovaně používaná minimálně ve třech různých významech :
(1) těžké, náročné cvičení (hard practice)
Například když autor píše o tom, že cvičení Yang Pan Hou a Yang Chien Hou bylo v mládí tak těžké a náročné, že ho téměř nemohli vydržet. Dokonce uvažovali o tom, že se stanou buddhistickými mnichy, aby mu unikli.
(2) tvrdost shaolinu
Tady je dobré si uvědomit, že Kuo Lien-Ying po celý svůj život cvičil kromě taiji i styly pakua a shaolin. A jeho vlastní styl taiji Kuang Ping (někdy také Guang Ping) je tímto pravděpodobně ovlivněn.
(3) tvrdost taiji
Z textu je zřejmé, že taiji obsahuje také tvrdost. Ale vlastní vysvětlení tvrdosti v taiji mi připadá ne dost jasné. A to i vzhledem proplétání s dalšími významy slova tvrdost.
Celkově musím říct, že v tomto textu jsem nenašel dostatečnou odpověď na to, jak to je s tvrdostí v taiji. Proto jsem se obrátil k dalším textům.

Asi za nejautoritativnější texty v taiji osobně považuji tzv. Klasické texty taiji (Taiji classics) což je soubor tří až osm textů starých mistrů ve kterých jsou vyjádřené základní principy taiji. Zjistil jsem, že se tyto texty věnují pojmu tvrdost jenom minimálně. Našel jsem jednu zásadní zmínku a to v textu přisuzovaném mistru WangTsung-Yueh. Podrobněji se otázce tvrdosti věnuje jeden z rukopisů rodiny Yang na téma bojového aspektu taiji. Naštěstí oba tyto texty jsou poměrně jednoduše dostupné i v českém překladu.
Z těchto textů mi vyplynulo zhruba následující :
(1) taiji obsahuje také tvrdost
(2) při taiji je cílem být navenek měkký a uvnitř tvrdý
(3) tvrdosti uvnitř se dosahujeme ne tím, že bychom o ní vědomě usilovali, ale naopak tím, že se soustředíme na měkkost.
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

 

Příspěvekod Polaris » ned 21. srp, 2005 22:22

Co prosím chápeš pod označením "tvrdost"?
Polaris
diskutér - nováček
diskutér - nováček
 
Příspěvky: 6
Registrován: sob 30. dub, 2005 23:00
Bydliště: Brno

Příspěvekod Anonymní » pon 22. srp, 2005 14:28

A tvoje otazka zní tedy jak?
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

Příspěvekod Yvan » pon 22. srp, 2005 18:57

Polaris píše:Co prosím chápeš pod označením "tvrdost"?

Tvrdost je pro mne opakem, protikladem měkkosti.
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

Příspěvekod Yvan » pon 22. srp, 2005 18:58

PC píše:A tvoje otazka zní tedy jak?


První otázka zní :
Co říkají o tvrdosti klasické texty taiji? A také další texty starých mistrů, jako již zmíněné rukopisy rodiny Yang.
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

xdx

Příspěvekod Anonymní » pon 22. srp, 2005 19:38

Tichá luna září,má tisíce tváří...V noci teplé má dost síly,lidi mění v krásné víly.Ty co změnit nedokáže,těm ukáže jejich tváře..a zrcadlo smrti letí moje srdce jemně drtí..jeho víra mění slova,ruce topí do olova...
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

Příspěvekod Anonymní » úte 23. srp, 2005 21:07

Nebuď měkkej :D
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

Význam bojového aspektu Tchaj-ťi čchüan

Příspěvekod Yvan » úte 23. srp, 2005 21:38

littlearts píše:Tichá luna ...


Tak to neznám. A znáš Ty tohle?

Význam bojového aspektu Tchaj-ťi čchüan

"Po bojové stránce je systém Tchaj-ťi čchüan navenek měkký, ale uvnitř tvrdý. Budeme-li se neustále snažit být navenek měkcí, po delší době zcela přirozeně získáme vnitřní tvrdost. Není to tak, že bychom o tuto tvrdost vědomě usilovali, neboť ve skutečnosti je naše mysl upřena k měkkosti. Celá obtíž spočívá v tom, že je nutné být uvnitř tvrdý, ale zároveň tutio tvrdost nevyjadřovat navenek. Za každých okolností musíme při střetu s protivníkem projevit měkkost, tedy odpovědět na jeho tvrdost měkkostí a tím jeho tvrdost rozpustit do nicoty." ...

(Z rukopisů rodiny Jangů, které opsal ©en «ia-čen)
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

gfg

Příspěvekod Anonymní » úte 23. srp, 2005 21:47

Hm to je dost dobrý.Nedávno jsem někomu doporučoval ať si přečte články pět úrovní kung fu.Tam je to napsáno podobně.Bohužel jsem byl ale kritizován že píšu nesmysly.Takže už radši nic podobného nepíšu.Přitom ty články jsou od rodiny CHen.Tak asi psali nesmysly...
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

????

Příspěvekod Frana » ned 28. srp, 2005 10:09

A jak je to s tim, když se setkají dva tai-jisti v boji???Protože řikáš že proti tvrdosti se musí mněkostí.Já si to nedokážu dost dobře představit, ale když dva tai-jisti do sebe pudou vnější mněkostí a vnitřní tvrdostí, nejde jen o to, kdo bude uvnitř tvrdší a na venek mněkčí??
Fráňa
"i-šou tan-tchien!"
Pomatuj, že cesta do Pekel je dlážděna dobrýmy úmysly!
Frana
diskutér - začátečník
diskutér - začátečník
 
Příspěvky: 70
Registrován: čtv 17. bře, 2005 0:00

 

Re: ????

Příspěvekod Yvan » stř 07. zář, 2005 9:20

Frana píše:A jak je to s tim, když se setkají dva tai-jisti v boji???

Když se setkají dva taijisti v boji, tak se možná něco stane. Ale nemyslím si, že by to byl náš problém. Náš problém je dlouhá léta spíše v tom, že pokud se budeme spoléhat na tvrdost, fyzickou sílu nebo rychlost, tak naše taiji nikdy nepřekročí určitou úroveň a zůstane pouze vnějším cvičením.
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

Příspěvekod chorche » stř 07. zář, 2005 10:57

a co nam o tvrdosti v tai ji rika tento clanek?

On Taiji Quan

Extract from an interview published by the French magazine Arts Martiaux

Arts Martiaux (AM): Taiji Quan is not generally considered violent, so people may wonder how it can possibly be a martial art. You have said that the salient characteristics of Taiji Quan - its slow supple movements, its expression of gentleness, distension and sense of well-being - are what teach the capacity for combat. Could you explain this for us??


Kenji Tokitsu (KT): The effectiveness of Taiji Quan resides in its application of the fundamental idea behind Taiji: the dynamic association of two opposite elements: yin and yang. If today's Taiji Quan is not applicable to combat, it is because this duality is applied only partially. Let me explain. Contrary to what is usually said, Taiji Quan is a relatively recent discipline. According to my research, it was developed at the end of the nineteenth century.


AM: Really? But people say that the history of Taiji Quan goes back thousands of years.


KT: Many people think so. But in fact, they are confusing the cosmogonic thought of Taiji with the martial discipline called Taiji Quan. The philosophy of Taiji - the original Chaos of the Universe which then divides into the two dynamic elements (yin and yang) to form the natural and human phenomena - is indeed very ancient. But Taiji Quan, which was developed at the end of the nineteenth century, is a martial art based on this philosophical thought and cosmogony. Taiji Quan means boxing, art of percussion, a combat art whose methodology is based on the principle of Taiji. But the two must not be confused. The history of Chinese martial arts is very complex. We must distinguish between the words of the masters and historical facts, because the pupils of masters endowed with extraordinary capacities tend to believe everything that such masters say. But while the technical explanations of the masters may be correct and valid, their historical knowledge often is not. The qualities required for outstanding achievement in a combat art and objective knowledge of history rarely go hand in hand..


Particularly insofar as the history of martial arts is concerned, there are major differences in the views of historians themselves. But in any case, Taiji Quan as a martial discipline was created at the end of the nineteenth century and rapidly gained great recognition in Peking, the capital of China. How was this possible? Well, one of the most obvious reasons was that adept practitioners of Taiji Quan were very strong in combat. If not, it would have proved impossible for this school to have carved out such a great place for itself among all the disciplines that had grown up over many centuries.


AM: Yes, that is clear.


KT: We can conclude, therefore, that towards the end of the nineteenth century, adept practitioners of Taiji were strong in combat. This means that training in Taiji Quan enabled them to acquire and develop the capacities needed to master percussion combat. There is no percussion combat where you punch slowly, flexibly and gently. Percussion combat is explosive. So the Taiji Quan training of that period was effective for developing the speed and power that are essential for combat. Today's Taiji Quan, however, does not give the impression of developing such qualities. Why not? I think that the key lies somewhere between historical fact and the current practice of Taiji Quan. It will enable us to comprehend that there is a considerable difference between the Taiji of the two periods. Now we must think about the reasons for this difference.

AM: So you are saying that somewhere between the feats of the early taiji practitioners and the current form of Taiji resides the key for grasping the original characteristics of Taiji?


KT: That's right. If the ancient practitioners of Taiji were strong in combat, they must have acquired their capacities somewhere - that is, through their training in Taiji . By this I mean that their practice of Taiji enabled them to develop the capacities required for combat: speed, power and mastery of the rhythms and perception of the adversary. If that was the case, it means both that the content of Taiji was different from today's, and that they had some supplementary training. Whatever the case, if modern Taiji Quan does not afford this possibility, then there is a discrepancy between the two. The cause of this discrepancy must be some qualitative transformation. In short, today's Taiji Quan has lost the ability to develop the qualities needed for combat.

AM: Yes, that seems logical.


KT: On the subject of Taiji Quan, I feel there is not much sense in talking about a true Taiji or a false Taiji, since in any case the modern-day version is a major transformation of the original. We often hear it said that this or that Master teaches the true Taiji, the authentic or ancient Taiji. Unquestionably, the version he teaches may be more or less ancient, but I don't think it is appropriate to view it as true or false. The issue cannot be stated in this way. In Japan for example, there are so many video cassettes on Taiji with labels such as “authentic, exceptional, effective” that Taiji has lost all credibility. This is what a friend who produces videos recently told me. At any rate, there must be great differences in the Taiji as practiced today and at the end of the nineteenth century in the Yang and Chen styles. I think that this development entails both positive and negative consequences. For example, the quest for health and well-being is inseparable from modern Taiji Quan, whereas this concern was not evident when the discipline first began.

The situation of today's Taiji is similar to that of Qi Gong. There are numerous schools of Qi Gong, and the term Qi Gong itself is very recent, even though its roots stretch far back in history. If I remember correctly, the term Qi Gong dates only from the 1950s and was popularised during the 1970s. Qi Gong is actually a modern synthesis of teachings from different origins practiced by the Chinese. Likewise, the recent discipline of Taiji Quan has complex historical roots and combines technical elements from different schools. In other words, if most currents of modern-day Taiji Quan have lost or diminished their martial component, it is possible to complete them and once again combine the technical elements of different schools.

In any case, you will not find the original qualities of Taiji Quan if you stay stuck in the study of the modern version of a single school. If you want to relate Taiji to different Chinese martial arts disciplines, and derive technical elements from them, most of them exist in the original Taiji.


AM: You mentioned Qi Gong. What is the relationship between Qi Gong and Taiji Quan? One often hears that you must practice Qi gong in order to be good at Taiji, or vice-versa. People also say that Taiji was born as a result of Qi Gong�?�..


KT: As you will see from what I have said so far, the origin of Taiji Quan as a martial art has nothing to do with Qi Gong. It is true, however, that most contemporary schools of Taiji are permeated with Qi Gong. What happened is that in the course of the development of Taiji Quan in high Chinese society, Taiji was modified and energy exercises were incorporated. Rich people in high society had more access to culture and a tendency to intellectualise their practice, with the result that the theory and practice of Taiji were refined. Taiji became increasingly subtle with a strengthening of its intellectual, philosophical and mystical components. The element of Qi Gong was infused and strengthened.

With this turn of events, the Yang school of Taiji Quan in Peking evolved to a point where, by the early twentieth century, there was a great difference between this version and that of its original region. The Yang-style taiji of Pekín became famous and in turn influenced the original form of Taiji. In the same way, with time a certain diversity appeared in the Yang school, as always happens with cultural trends. But I won't go into the details. There is one thing of interest though. It is normally said that the origin of Taiji Quan is Chen. But until the end of the nineteenth century, the martial art of the city of Chen was called Pao Chui and had nothing to do with Taiji Quan. Yang Luchan, founder of the Yang school, studied the form of Pao Chui and used it in developing the Yang school of Taiji Quan. In the early twentieth century, when Yang Taiji had become famous, the practitioners of Chen adopted the name of Taiji Quan to designate their art. And thus was born the Chen school of Taiji. It is not only the name, but also the mode of practice that has undergone transformation. Therefore, strictly speaking, the Chen school was the origin of Yang-style Taiji, but the origin of Taiji Quan is the Yang school. In the city of the Chen family, a number of documents on Taiji Quan were falsified in this period and this has complicated our understanding of the origins of taiji. In the martial arts - more so in China than in Japan -, the falsification of documents is not unusual.
So the history of Chinese martial arts cannot be grasped with simple logic.

Anyway, in the course of its development, Taiji Quan has had a long evolution and has gained popularity through its approach to Qi Gong, which it has intimately incorporated and with which it identifies. But because of this evolution, most schools of Taiji Quan have distanced themselves from the art of combat. In this regard, Taiji Quan is, in its current state, a way of positively developing a point of view of Qi energy exercises, but which at the same time has lost its martial art qualities. That is, the martial aspect of Taiji has been diminished, if not eclipsed or eliminated, in most modern schools of Taiji quan, while the mysticism and subtlety of the exercises are highly developed. These features are attractive for certain westerners, as was the case in China as well at the beginning of the century.

In my opinion, the exercise of energy is a very positive teaching of Taiji Quan, and makes it stand out as original among the different disciplines. If we can rediscover the martial value of Taiji Quan to heighten this energy component, don't you think it will be truly marvellous? We could say that it is ideally adapted to the method of martial arts. I feel that to re-establish this methodological value, we must examine Taiji in light of its founding principle: the dynamic association of yin and yang.


AM: The dynamic association of yin and yang?


KT: Yes, that is the simple, essential definition of Taiji. Taiji is a dynamic integration of yin and yang - that is, of opposites such as heat and cold, high and low, hard and soft, darkness and light, slow and fast. If your practice of Taiji Quan includes only soft, slow, flexible movements, it is an exclusively yin practice and therefore should be called taiyin quan and not Taiji Quan. This being the case, most of the practices called Taiji Quan today are in fact taiyin quan (martial art based on yin elements), rather than Taiji Quan.

AM: I see.


KT: Right? I repeat that Taiji Quan is a martial art that combines opposite elements, meaning that it integrates flexibility and firmness, slowness and speed, violence and gentleness. This is Taiji and the reason why Taiji Quan was effective in combat. Contrary to its current image, Taiji combat is very fast, powerful and explosive. Otherwise, how can one become effective in percussion combat? There is no other mystery here.


AM: Is this what you call combat Taiji Quan?


KT: Yes..( ) "chuan" merely means the art of combat. Strictly speaking, Taiji Quan means therefore the taiji of combat. Today, the general original figure of Taiji Quan is difficult to discern, since it has been shrouded in opaque coverings (energy, Qi, well-being, mastery of oneself, tranquillity, etc.), all of which are linked to the image of an ecology I am in favour of. But because of all this, we have to admit that our view has been a little distorted. Energy, health, well-being, Qi are not abstract ideas. They are manifested and registered concretely in practice and through our way of being.

AM: Why and how was it possible to develop combat skills in taiji practitioners?


KT: It is difficult to explain this in words, particularly in an interview, but I think that a comparison with the methodology of Yi Quan will help us to see these things more clearly. You know that Yi Quan seeks to form combat qualities through Zhàn Zhuang exercises (immobile, or standing meditation).

Zhàn Zhuang does not belong exclusively to Yi Quan, though. This method appears to have been practiced in China for more than two thousand years. In a large number of schools, students trained in Zhàn Zhuang as a complementary exercise. In Yi Quan, it is practiced as the main exercise. In any case, it is exercise executed while standing still. When one moves, it is only very slowly. But through this apparently immobile or extremely slow exercise, what is sought is the capacity to move swiftly and release explosive force. To remain standing still is the means, not the aim. It does not mean that the training process to develop qualities must be confronted with the form of using them. Combat is what enables us to judge the insufficiency or aptness of the work done and puts things in their rightful place. This fact often appears to be overlooked.

The Yi Quan method is based on Zhàn Zhuang, on nearly immobile postures, while those Taiji exercises are based on Tao Lu (kata), on slow, soft movements. The aim of the two methods is to develop dynamic capacities and skills. But, especially in Taiji, the means (slow, smooth movements) have become the end. As I have said very clearly, I think that this is a positive feature of Taiji, but we have to recognise that an important thing is missing. What is extraordinary about Taiji is that slowness engenders the power that ensures longevity of practice. The case of Yi Quan is taken to the extreme, since there, immobility is what engenders speed and force. That should be clear.

The objective is neither softness nor slowness, nor is it immobility. Rather, it is to develop and augment the skills of combat, although the means for reaching this goal also affords the possibility of mastering one's health and well-being.

If we agree with this reasoning, we have to say that if our practice of taiji does not enable us to develop the faculties concerned with speed and power, then it is not authentic Taiji as boasted in the label of the school. The important thing is what you obtain through your training, not through your belief in some rigid, impoverished forms of an institutionalised school. The authenticity of a practice resides in yourself. It is not a title given by a master - “authentic successor of such and such a school”.

Practice for your own sake, in order to feel good, to progress and to become truly capable. Or else you can practice to gain recognition according to the criteria of a school. But you have to choose.


Co si o tom myslite?
chorche
diskutér - začátečník
diskutér - začátečník
 
Příspěvky: 82
Registrován: ned 27. úno, 2005 0:00

Příspěvekod Anonymní » stř 07. zář, 2005 15:05

No, eště sem to nedočet celý, :lol: ale docela mě pobavilo dyž ten Japonec píše že podle Jeho výzkumů Taiji Quan vznikl koncem 19. století a starší historie sou kecy. Chtěl bych vidět jeho xicht až mu ňákej Číňan bude tvrdit že kendo (kendžucu) vzniklo koncem 19. století a Mijamoto Musashiho si vymysleli lidový vypravěči :lol: :lol: :lol:
___
Jox
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

holdi

Příspěvekod Anonymní » stř 07. zář, 2005 19:18

Pokud vim tak Kendo vzniklo z boje čínským mečem.Historie nelže.Ale z toho si nic nedělej.To je jako když se v jedné knize od Funakoshi píše že karate nemá nic společného s čínským boxem.Přitom z něho vzešlo...
Anonymní
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 8403
Registrován: čtv 01. led, 1970 1:00

Příspěvekod Yvan » čtv 08. zář, 2005 9:00

chorche píše:a co nam o tvrdosti v tai ji rika tento clanek?

On Taiji Quan

Extract from an interview published by the French magazine Arts Martiaux
Kenji Tokitsu (KT):
...

Co si o tom myslite?


Stále stejná písnička. Takových textů je spousta a jsou k ničemu.
Někteří z těch, co dělají tvrdé styly a začnou dělat Taiji, se snaží v něm nalézat a aplikovat principy tvrdých stylů, které znají. Rychlost, vnější síla a tvrdost jsou podstatné pro bojové aplikace tvrdých stylů, ale ne pro Taiji. Když přidáme do Taiji vnější sílu a tvrdost, dostaneme vnější tvrdý styl, který možná používá Taiji formy a techniky. Ale již není Taiji.
Tvrdé vnější styly jsou velmi efektivní pro bojové aplikace. A po dlouhá léta cvičení určitě více než Taiji. Pokud chce být někdo rychle schopný bojových aplikací, tak myslím Taiji pro něho není ta nejlepší cesta. Problém je v tom, že vnější síla, rychlost a tvrdost mají svá přirozená omezení a od určitého bodu a věku již nerostou.
V Taiji tyto omezení nejsou a dědek, který cvičí celý život je schopný se stále zlepšovat. Bez ohledu na to, jestli je mu sedmdesát, nebo i více.

Znova si dovolím citovat klasické texty Taiji a konkrétně "Pojednání o Tchaj-ťi čchüan od Wang Cung-jüe" z českého překladu "Yang Family Secret Transmissions" :

Existuje mnoho dalších škol bojového umění. I když se liší stylem, stále v nich platí, že síla poráží slabost a rychlost přemáhá pomalost. Silný vítězí nad slabším a pomalé ruce podléhají rychlejším. To vše je nám přirozeně dáno a nemá to nic společného s tím, čeho lze nabýt vážně míněným studiem.
I když existuje veliké množství škol bojového umění a každá z nich učí vlastní formy a aplikace, jedno mají společné. Kladou důraz na sílu a rychlost. Vlastně tak pracují s vrozenými vlastnostmi a ne s vlastnostmi získanými studiem. V mnoha školách je řada pověstných bojovníků, ale žádný z nich si neporadí s jemností a zázračností technik Tchaj-ťi čchüan .

Když se blíže podíváme na představu odhození tisíce liber silou čtyř uncí, pochopíme, že se zde nejedná o hrubou sílu.
...
Pokud spatříte starého muže, jak se úspěšně brání celé skupině protivníků, asi za to nebude vděčit svojí rychlosti.
...
Yvan
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 690
Registrován: ned 18. dub, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Praha

Příspěvekod chorche » čtv 08. zář, 2005 19:01

to byly moc hezky citace :D tak ja teda nevim (tai ji nerozumim) ale kdyz ne silu a rychlost (jako ze asi opravdu ne) co teda tai ji rozviji a jaky ma smysl jej cvicit?
chorche
diskutér - začátečník
diskutér - začátečník
 
Příspěvky: 82
Registrován: ned 27. úno, 2005 0:00

Příspěvekod myhero » čtv 08. zář, 2005 20:57

kdysi jsem prekladal knihu o japonsky metode TaiKiKen (znaky: velky-energie-pest).

neni to komplexni b.u., jenom metoda na pesteni rychlosti a sily prostrednictvim velmi pomaleho opakovani zakladnich pohybovych vzorcu (tlaceni, tazeni, otaceni, nejaky ty "perkusni" vzorce atd.)

ty chlapici se hejbaj fakt pomalu. jejich idealem je pohyb na hranici postrehnutelnosti.

diky tomu pak dosahujou rychlosti a sily bez ztraty plynulosti a presnosti. a samozrejme vynikajici kontroly ki. tyhle veci bez sebe nefungujou.

kdepak to asi odkoukali?
kokoroaratanikotoniatare
myhero
diskutér - nováček
diskutér - nováček
 
Příspěvky: 19
Registrován: pon 14. úno, 2005 0:00

Příspěvekod myhero » čtv 08. zář, 2005 21:45

omlouvam se za idiotskou formulaci, ono toho je v taikiken o "trochu" vic, to bych jim krivdil.

nicmene prave tahle metoda je pro toto forum relevantni, takze tak. B-)
kokoroaratanikotoniatare
myhero
diskutér - nováček
diskutér - nováček
 
Příspěvky: 19
Registrován: pon 14. úno, 2005 0:00

Příspěvekod Raptor » čtv 08. zář, 2005 22:14

myhero píše:kdysi jsem prekladal knihu o japonsky metode TaiKiKen (znaky: velky-energie-pest).

neni to komplexni b.u., jenom metoda na pesteni rychlosti a sily prostrednictvim velmi pomaleho opakovani zakladnich pohybovych vzorcu (tlaceni, tazeni, otaceni, nejaky ty "perkusni" vzorce atd.)

ty chlapici se hejbaj fakt pomalu. jejich idealem je pohyb na hranici postrehnutelnosti.

diky tomu pak dosahujou rychlosti a sily bez ztraty plynulosti a presnosti. a samozrejme vynikajici kontroly ki. tyhle veci bez sebe nefungujou.

kdepak to asi odkoukali?


Odkoukali to z Xing Yi Quanu.

Tai Ki Ken je japonská verze Yi Quanu, kterou přivezl do Japonska z Číny Kenichi Sawai, který studoval Yi Quan u mistra Wang Xiangzai, zakladatele Yi Quanu. Wang Xiangzai sám pak studoval Xing Yi Quan u mistra Kuo Yun Shena. Navíc Wang Xiangzai ještě mimo jiné už jako mistr Xing Yi Quanu studoval i Baguazhang s Liu Fengchunem a Taijiquan s Yang Shaohouem a Yang Chengfuem. Víc info na http://www.yiquan.com.pl/enghistory.html.
Martin
香港楊家太極拳 / Heung Gong Yeung Gar Tai Gik Kuen
admin
http://www.taijiquan.cz
http://www.yangtaiji.com
Raptor
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 553
Registrován: ned 12. zář, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Brno

Příspěvekod Raptor » pát 09. zář, 2005 11:22

K otázce tvrdosti a měkkosti v Taiji si dovolím odcitovat článek Vincenta Chu, syna mistra Chu Gin Soona, druhého vnitřního žáka mistra Yeung Sau Chunga, nejstaršího syna mistra Yang Cheng fu.

----------------------------------------------

The Teachings of Yeung Sau Chung
Article by Vincent Chu
Zdroj: http://www.gstaichi.org/english/yeungSauChung.php

Yeung Sau Chung (1909-1985), also known as Yang Zhenming, was the oldest son of the famous Yang Cheng Fu and a Tai Chi Chuan tutor for his three younger brothers who are living in mainland China today.

Sau Chung started his Tai Chi Chuan training at the age of eight. When he was 14 years old, he learned the complete Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan system and qualified as his father's assistant.

When he was 19 years old, he was hired by many organizations as their private Tai Chi Chuan instructor. Later, he accompanied his father to teach Tai Chi Chuan throughout China.


In 1949, he left the mainland China for Hong Kong. He believed in quality and personal instruction. Therefore, all of his Tai Chi Chuan instruction was conducted one on one with each student in the privacy of his residence on Lockhard Road until his death in May 1985.

Although Yeung spent all of his life to achieve the highest standard in his family art of Tai Chi Chuan, he was hardly known by Westerners.

With an increasing demand from our organization members for an authentic Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan book, my father Gin Soon Chu asked Yeung to publish the "Practical Use of Tai Chi Chuan: Its Applications and Variations" in English in 1977 and my father was the publisher. This same book translated to German by Stephan Hagen in 1996.

In 1984, I was fortunate to obtained Grandmaster Yeung's personal instructions and insights on the art of the Yang Style. On this sixth anniversary of his passing, I would like to share some of his teachings.

Grandmaster Yeung said that there are many different ways to practice the Yang Style solo form. It is different according to the student's objectives, levels and discipline.

What is important for a Yang Style Practitioner is to acknowledge and understand this so that this information will be available later. He said that there are three levels of stances (for the legs) and frames (movements of the hands and body) for each posture.

As a beginner, if a student is in a reasonable physical condition, he should begin with a high stance and a medium frame posture. If an older student begins, a higher stance can be combined with a large frame posture. This is generally recommended because the large frame provides more movement with the body and hands which is better for the blood circulation.

Also, a higher stance does not demand a lot of work from the legs. These are the best ways for most novices to get into Tai Chi Chuan training.

A serious practitioner should work with either a medium or low stance in combination with the three frames to achieve maximum practice. The difficulty of the low stance pushes one to achieve the highest skills in Tai Chi Chuan training as a martial art system.

In self defense applications, a high stance combined with the small frames is best because a high stance gives better mobility and a small frame moves in a straight line rather than a circular line to execute a movement to defend oneself.

Although his father, Yang Cheng Fu, was famous with the high and large posture, from the explanation given by Yeung Sau Chung, one can see why he taught his family style individually, according to the student.

Grandmaster Yeung said that the advanced Knowledge in Tai Chi Chuan integrates the philosophy of Yin and Yang in practice. As we see from the Tai Chi Chuan diagram, Tai Chi Chuan is but the unification of Yin and Yang. This is what the Tai Chi Chuan classic called, "Tai Chi was born from Wu Chi and the mother of Yin and Yang."

Therefore, in order to be able to advance in Tai Chi Chuan training, one must understand the philosophy of Yin and Yang and all the postures much posses this concept at all times. This is why the classic said that only if the practitioner truly understands the interaction of Yin and Yang can he be considered to understand the power.


The following is a list of four interpretations of Yin and Yang and one should consciously keep them in mind to integrate them into Tai Chi Chuan practice.

1. Yin and Yang Opposition
In this interpretation, everything exists in two components and they are opposite and complementary from each other as in Yin and Yang. They do not exist equally with each other in one unit. Rather, they they are constantly struggling to overtake each other in the same unit. It is this constant struggle that puts everything in motion for the positive way.

2. Yin and Yang Complementary
In this interpretation, the two components coexist together in one unit and they depend on each other to survive. It cannot survive by itself. e.g. left and right. If there is no right, then there is no left. Therefore, the Yang component relies on the Yin component to survive and the Yin component relies on the Yang component to survive. Each component needs its opposite to exist. If this Yin and Yang harmony is disrupted the Yang component by itself will not survive and the Yin component by itself will also not survive.

3. Yin and Yang Balance
In this interpretation, the Yin and Yang are not equally divided. Each is constantly struggling to overtake the other. Sometime there is more Yang than Yin component and others times, there is more Yin than Yang component in a constant state of struggle and yet they are able to live together.
An example can be shown with the four seasons. In the summer, there is more Yang than Yin component and in the Winter, there is more Yin than Yang component. At the end of the year, the Yin component and the Yang component remain equal to each other. Although the Yin and Yang are complementary to each other, one should not neglect the importance and significance of balance. Everything must exist in a balanced state in order to grow and prosper.

4. Yin and Yang Interaction
In this interpretation, Yin and Yang always struggle and have a tendency to overtake each other and grow in opposition. Therefore, at certain times, Yin becomes Yang and Yang becomes Yin in a constant interchangeable state as they evolve and reproduce. This interaction begins when Yin and Yang reach their maturity.

Grandmaster Yeung said that when a practitioner truly understands the Yin and Yang and incorporates its philosophy into their practice, the advancement of Tai Chi Chuan training should be very quick.

Let's take the concept of hard and soft and see how it is incorporated into practice. The philosophy says that one component can not survive by itself. Therefore, soft must coexist with hard together as in one concept and practice, accordingly.

How do you incorporate this into practice? Grandmaster Yeung said that the first thing one needs to know is to simplify the concept into its sub-components: roundness and squareness. In order to know the concept of roundness, one must know the concept of flow and its characteristic. In order to understand the concept of squareness, one must know the five bows (two bows on the hands, two on the feet and one with the whole body). One must also knows the concept of contraction and extension or the open and close motion and its characteristics.

He also said that at the beginning, a student learns to be relaxed and soft to remove all the brute strength. Relaxation begins with the major joints such as the shoulders, wrists, waist, hip and the whole body. Regional relaxation such as only the hands or the body is not enough. Relaxation must involve the whole body. This relaxation will benefit people with good health by circulating the chi throughout the body without any inhibition. At this time the solo form should flow freely. This is the process of practicing roundness.

If one is interested in continuing on to a higher level of Tai Chi Chuan training, one should practice the procedure of squareness. The squareness is composed of the open and closed motions, which provide one with a sense of knowing at which moment the power should yield or should issue. Therefore, squareness is the practice of projecting energy outside the body.

The round procedure is for circulating or yielding energy. The square procedure is for issuing of energy. If the solo form is primarily composed of roundness, it is said that the solo form is too soft.

If the solo form is primary composed of squareness, it is said that the solo form is too hard. The perfect solo form is said to have 50% of each.

After one has incorporated roundness and squareness into Tai Chi Chuan training and mastered the concept of hard and soft, one can execute the softness of the body smoothly like a snake's movement or execute the hardness of the body like iron. The utilization of the hard or soft technique depends on the opponent's action.


Grandmaster Yeung said that criteria to determine good posture begins with some of the principles such as whether a posture is centered, balanced, tranquil, comfortable, round and full, etc.

When a student correctly executes these concepts, he should be strong and stable like a mountain. Grandmaster Yeung said that whether a student truly understands the varied concepts of Tai Chi Chuan training is determined by how he incorporates the concepts into his training. Just speaking of the concepts' literary meaning is not enough.

Although Grandmaster Yeung Sau Chung has been dead for six years, he will never be forgotten.
Martin
香港楊家太極拳 / Heung Gong Yeung Gar Tai Gik Kuen
admin
http://www.taijiquan.cz
http://www.yangtaiji.com
Raptor
mistr diskutér
mistr diskutér
 
Příspěvky: 553
Registrován: ned 12. zář, 2004 23:00
Bydliště: Brno

Další

Zpět na čínská bojová umění a sporty...

Kdo je online

Uživatelé procházející toto fórum: Žádní registrovaní uživatelé a 11 návštevníků